Elder Scrolls Aedra Vs Daedra
Aug 23, 2017 What are the chances of having a server where we could chose to play as either aedra or daedra. Anyone in any of the alliances could chose which one to play. Unlike the Daedra, the Aedra are bound to Mundus, and can possibly be killed, as may have happened to Lorkhan after the meeting at the Adamantine Tower. They are not copyrighted by a ZeniMax Media company, but can still be considered part of The Elder Scrolls lore and are included for completeness.
So the two 'clans' seems to be strictly opposing eachother, and since the beginning of their birth, there has been a constant grudge between them, wich have resulted in various consequenses for the mortals on Nirn.If they ever clashed and were to spend all their knowledge, resouces and powers, wich part would win??The daedra can take physical form, therefore personally retrive any item or trigger any event, that would be at their advantage.The aedra has no physical form. In TES:IV - Oblivion's ending, it was merely Akatosh's spirit who merged with Martin and begame the avatar of a dragon.
They have to rely on their mortal woshippers to accoplish anything physically.Physical or spiritual advantages, who is the most powerfull? Who would win if they battled eachother? Aedra or Daedra?Posts: 3436 Joined: Sun Jul 02, 2006 11:54 am.
As far as I know, they used to be equal in power, but the Aedra lost some of their power when they sacrificed themselves to form the Mundus. So ever since the creation of the Mundus, the Aedra have been weaker.
Elder Scrolls Aedra Vs Daedra 2
In my opinion, the only reason that Mehrunes Dagon was defeated is because a dragonborn used one of the most powerful artifacts ever created in a plane where the Aedra are at their full power. (I've heard multiple times that Daedra are weaker outside of their own planes of Oblivion, so that could very well have given the avatar of Akatosh the upper hand in the fight, as he was at full strength.) Also the simple fact that Akatosh can't simply appear himself on Nirn, but instead has to rely on mortals becoming his avatar through the amulet of kings shows that the Aedra are weaker than the Daedra. If any lore buff feels like completely shattering what I just said and correcting me, feel free to. Giving the original poster a correct answer is more important than my egoPosts: 3539 Joined: Sun Oct 22, 2006 2:57 am. It's really just a matter of perspective and a little bit of philosophy. There's no wrong answer.
If you consider Mundus itself to be an extension of Aedric power, including the many Aedric descendants/aspects/creations which inhabit it, then they're arguably still roughly equal. Then again, that assumes they were roughly equal from the onset, and that may be a false equivalency.What is power? If it's the power to change, the Daedra win.
But then again, multiple Daedra have tried to destroy Mundus and failed thanks to the Aedra and their progeny. It's kind of a wash.Posts: 3379 Joined: Fri Jan 26, 2007 3:16 am. The Aedra always had to rely on mortals to stop the Daedra though. Akatosh channeled the power of the amulet of kings through martin septim and made him powerful enough to stop Mehrunes.
But your point is pretty correct, what is power? If power is having brought life to various races, creating a world, and having an entire empire worship you, then the Aedra are the obvious winners. If power is being able to summon armies of Daedra, manipulating and killing mortals, and being able to take on whatever form you please, then the Daedra reign supreme. The OP asked about a direct battle between the Aedra and Daedra though, however I don't see how one could take place, as the Aedra don't seem to take on a solid form and live on through the Mundus.
I guess the destruction of the Mundus would mean the end of the Aedra though, unless they live on the in the Aetherius but choose not to show themselves.Posts: 3318 Joined: Thu Dec 07, 2006 2:53 am. From what we currently know about the two groups from a variety of creation myths and in-game events, I'd say it's all largely a matter of perspective.The daedra are ancient spirits that supposedly abstained from creation and therefore remained largely whole, sentient and in control of their faculties. The Princes appear to be able to make contact with the mortal realm more easily and more frequently than Aedric beings and are the omnipotent gods of their respective domains, but the Earth-Bone aedra are supposedly the foundation of the Mundus, they spawned the mortal races and all the potential that lies within them.Plus when Aedric power has supposedly been tapped, it's effects have been quite potent (the formation of the Dragon Fires, the Aedric boon of the Soulless One, Auriel's Bow etc.). Though Aedric blessings seem infrequent, they seem to give mortals power they could not otherwise achieve, whereas a lot of daedric 'power' in the Mundus relies on the volition of mortals. This may be because of the Princes purported inability to create in the Mundus, only warp and change.Posts: 3333 Joined: Sat Jun 02, 2007 4:50 pm.
Actually as far as I know, the Aedra lost most of their power, they are pretty close to being catatonic and only manifest their spheres as the 'earth bones', the laws of nature on Nirn.Technically speaking mortals are the aedra, being more or less just tiny tiny pieces of the aedra that formed it all. The only reason Akatosh is still kicking about a little is probably because he was insanely powerful before Nirn was made.But of course, it all depends on 'what' kind of power you're thinking off. As individuals the aedra aren't much, but they have direct influence over everything that is Nirn, and they have in various forms prevented all those daedric princes from taking over who knows how many times. But individually they can't really oppose the daedra.Imagine the Aedra being the kids who own all the toys but the Daedra are better at playing with them.
Or imagine that the aedra invested most of their capital in project Nirn and don't have much left, but collectively own Nirn, while the daedra still have money but not much say in what's going on.Posts: 3163 Joined: Sun Jul 01, 2007 9:59 am. But what is a child, if not a physical and spiritual avatar of those who made it? Arguably, the mortals of Mundus remain as part of the Aedra's power, so they could be considered to be stopping the Daedra themselves, even when they're relying on mortals to perform certain actions. What I mean is that it could all be viewed like a strategy card game, with the Aedra being the players, and mortals being their cards.That's what I mean.
Before the Ages of Man says that most of the 'Gods' who first agreed to take part in Mundus left when Magnus did, and they thus theoretically retain most if not all of their power. But whether they could still be considered Aedric is a grey area.Posts: 3451 Joined: Tue Jan 30, 2007 2:43 pm. The Aedra gave of themselves to the creation of Mundus. The Daedra did not. In a side by side comparison between the two, Daedra are more powerful then the Aedra.
It's just that in terms of servants available, the Aedra come out ahead of the Daedra (as mortal races seem superior in quality to Daedroth, even if the latter is technically immortal).Though the wild card there would be Malacath, given the Orcs devotion towards him. Then again, the Bretons and Redguards prune back the Orcish numbers with a new genocide every couple hundred years, so.Posts: 3410 Joined: Fri Aug 10, 2007 1:16 am. I don't think Talos is an Aedra, some even deny that he's a divine at all, even though the fact that you can recieve his blessing and that when you needed the blood of a divine in Oblivion Talos' blood worked pretty much confirm that he's a divine. But back on topic, as far as I know, the Aedra are the et'ada that decided to help in the creation of the Mundus. Talos obviously didn't do this, so he's not an Aedra, but the imperials added him to their divines because, you know, he's a badass.Posts: 3432 Joined: Sat Apr 14, 2007 11:34 pm. The difference between saying 'Talos achieved CHIM' and 'Talos saw the secret Tower of and within the Wheel' is the difference between saying 'Neo became the One' and 'Neo fulfilled a cyclical illusion of Messianic prophecy put in place by the Machines to deal with unsuitable Matrix-denizens.'
In both cases the latter, by their nature as explanations of a bunch of fantasy balderdash, are harder to grok.Talos is not an Aedroth. He is an ascended mortal, which DOES make him a god, but of a class with Mannimarco and ALMSIVI, not the Eight Planets. All et'Ada have existed since before Creation, Aedra included.That's why they are only ever called Nine Divines and not Nine Aedra. 'Eight Aedra' would be a true grouping, however.The Daedra do not get eaten by Alduin.
Alduin only eats Nirn, not all of the Mundus, not any of Oblivion, not any of Aetherius. It is reasonable to assume that the Leaper Demon King was not initially a Daedric Prince, rather a Mundane being, given that no Daedroth would care about preventing the Kalpic cycle, and his cursed transformation into the Razor cast him into Oblivion.Interesting conjecture time:The reset of the Kalpa, though heralded by the consumption of Nirn alone, has temporal effects that extend beyond Nirn. Convention is repeated; the actors in the play that is the Dawn perform yet again, perhaps the roles are shuffled around, perhaps not. Given that Alduin is the End of Time-made-flesh, this might not necessitate further inquiry.
But perhaps there is a different explanation.The Aedric planets of the Mundus are the dominions and flesh-divinities of the gods, which are not eaten by the World-Eater. Nirn, whose divinity, of course, is Memory, is eaten. Would not the violation of Memory entail a great forgetting? How else would the Aedra not realize they've been doing this Convention thing over and over again?Posts: 3307 Joined: Tue Jun 12, 2007 2:09 am.
You know, you got me thinking, that must be the real reason why the daedra want to conquer the mortal world. The daedra seems more powerfull than the aedra, but to gain ultimate power they need to dominate all of mortals, because mortals are the reason for the aedra's existence.There daedra are completely ignorant. They are too egocentric who and gladly sacrifice any other daedric prince to gain individual power.
If they stood together like the aedra they could potentially become stronger than any mortal or spirit ever known.Good thought.The daedra have power to impact and change mortals, but when majority of mortals worship the divines and abandon the daedra, they don't have many good cards to play with.Posts: 3425 Joined: Wed Jan 31, 2007 9:54 pm. Not all Daedra 'want to conquer the world', mind you. Bal and Dagon's former occupations now withstanding, their spheres tend to overlap into activities that involve smacking Nirn around like a tennis ball in the most obvious ways possible as opposed to say, Boethiah and Nocturnal. Bal less so, but still.There's not going to be a clear cut answer for you though. The Aedra and Daedra tend to opt through using mortal champions more often then not, and their machinations can often times be derailed by other mortals. The Daedra of course are far more active on that front, but whether or not you equate that to power or pure impetus is another question.Posts: 3343 Joined: Sat Oct 14, 2006 2:54 am.
Aedra Vs Daedra
If you were declared supreme sovereign over all land in Tamriel, what would your policy be in regards to the Daedra?If you pick Option 2, please elaborate on what Daedra may be freely venerated and why.I always found it fascinating that Mephala and Boethiah, generally considered to be two of the worst Daedra, were sources of worship for the Dunmer. Of course, it makes sense since they helped them and all.
But I think it speaks to Option 1's viability. The Daedra can be sources of good and aid, even the 'bad ones.'
Azura, Meridia, Malacath, Nocturnal, and Hermaeus Mora. All of them are relatively neutral in terms of their dealings with mortals (with HM being probably the shadiest of the lot), and their spheres of influence and worship are uncomplicated and generally not disagreeable.Possibly Jyggalag, Sheogorath, and Hircine.
Jyggalag would be a yes, but we don't know how he would regard mortals or command his followers (though I suspect it would be orders to conquer). Sheogorath isn't typically malevolent (and the Khajiit already worship him), but he is highly unpredictable and I don't know what use veneration of the god of madness would be. Hircine is again, fairly neutral and inoffensive, but he also espouses hunting the 'most dangerous game' AKA other people, so ehh. Azura, Meridia, Malacath, Nocturnal, and Hermaeus Mora. All of them are relatively neutral in terms of their dealings with mortals (with HM being probably the shadiest of the lot), and their spheres of influence and worship are uncomplicated and generally not disagreeable.Possibly Jyggalag, Sheogorath, and Hircine.
Jyggalag would be a yes, but we don't know how he would regard mortals or command his followers (though I suspect it would be orders to conquer). Sheogorath isn't typically malevolent (and the Khajiit already worship him), but he is highly unpredictable and I don't know what use veneration of the god of madness would be.
Hircine is again, fairly neutral and inoffensive, but he also espouses hunting the 'most dangerous game' AKA other people, so ehh. Click to expand. Click to shrink.Hermaeus Mora is a cthulu monster that discards and murders as suits his plans. Meridia sends assassins at anyone who fucks with magic she doesn't like. Nocturnal is a god of thieves most of all, and allowing her worship will encourage magically empowered thief guilds. Malacath is a god of outcastes, make his worship prominent.honestly would probably weaken him a lot, probably good to make him mainstream.
And Azura, did ya know, curse an entire race because three assholes murdered her husbandoHircine is super evil, as is Sheogorath, being that he is, among other things, the god of psychopaths. You are making judgments based on how heroes are treated in the games. Daedra are not, generally speaking, good news in the broader sense. You should not want Daedra in your house, you should not want a Daedra spouse.
You should not want Daedra here or there, you should not want Daedra anywhere. Click to expand.
Click to shrink.I won't argue with you on Hermaeus Mora, Sheogorath, or Hircine; they were dubious picks anyway.Meridia has a frothing hatred for necromancy, but it's necromancy.Nocturnal is venerated by thieves, yes, but canonically that relationship is literally a sort of business transaction. Besides, she's the goddess of the night, darkness, and luck, not directly of thieves.
Having her favour would be useful for a multitude of professions other than simple thievery.As for Azura, a curse that 'only' changes an entire race's phenotype isn't exactly the worst thing in the world, and the Dunmer aren't exactly suffering horribly for it. They still worship her, even. Click to expand.
Click to shrink.See my comment in the Controversial Gaming Opinions thread about the Dunmer's turning to Azura and company after the death of the Tribunal as fairly horrifying, not an endorsement of the Daedra Lords. It should also be noted that it's considered fairly suspicious in-universe how often times major events are set into motion by even her 'benevolent' / 'benign' interventions, casting doubt as to whether she actually means well or is capitalizing on the 'More flies with honey than vinegar' proverb as well as an ability to play the long game (her actions during the events of Morrowind can effectively be perceived as an attempt to spit in the eye of the Tribunal, rekindle her worship by the Dunmer, and possibly revenge against the one who murdered one of her past consorts, for an example). My policy if I were suddenly the absolute ruler? Men may worship what ever gods they like. However, if the gods themselves should set foot in my realm, they will be expected to obey the laws of the land.Basically, any cults of daedra worshipers who cannot serve their gods without things like committing murder, will be hunted down and very publicly executed. The only possible exception will be if a particular cult member saw his fellows about to commit these crimes, fled and informed the authorities. Otherwise, one strike, hunt down and hang the lot of them.I will also employ teams of investigators, well armed and trained magically, to patrol and investigate all temples and shrines to make sure they are abiding by the laws.
All shrines and temples must also be declared, hidden temples like the Shrine of Narima east of Markrath, will not be allowed. Temples of the various Divines most likely will not have a problem with any of this, as the laws of the land are no doubt based on the laws of the Divines in the first place. Click to expand. Click to shrink.Regionally speaking Morrowind was mostly focused on Morrowind's policies, which (given the Armistice) does not need to entirely dovetail with the Empire's, and reverence for the Good Daedra (meaning here not a judgement on their morality but rather the three Daedric Princes the Dunmer call the Good Daedra or, in the time of Morrowind, the Anticipations) doesn't seem to have been exactly banned so much as. Encouraged to channel it as an aspect of Tribunal worship.Oblivion gave the impression that Daedric worship per se isn't actually forbidden in Cyrodiil, just looked at with (varying degrees of) suspicion. And, sensibly, not seen as an excuse.
Click to expand. Click to shrink.The Chimer/Dunmer have always worshipped Daedra. They didn't 'turn' to her - it's just that with the loss of the Tribunal the aspect of Daedra worship got naturally stronger again in Dunmer religion. But it's nothing new to them. And Azura in particular was incorporated into Tribunal worship, with Azura being considered the anticipation of Sotha Sil.
Which of course didn't stop her from hating the Tribunal, but the point is Dunmer have always worshipped Azura. Click to expand.
Click to shrink.Well, it depends on what you mean with 'god'. Mundus is made out of spirits. Every single concept you see in Mundus was originally a spirit. That's how Lorkhan trapped them there.
So, Mundus is more spirits than just the Eight. The Yokudans/Redguards get that by having a pantheon with far too many gods, including a god of 'we have too many gods'.As for the Eight, they are dead, but malleable. If people worship them as god, they act as those gods.
In that sense, for example, Kynareth and Kyne, are different entities, even if they draw from t he same base. And Kynareth and Kyne can still act in the world.
In Morrowind, we meet rather unassuming avatars of the Divines. It's just that they aren't really people in the same sense that Daedric Lords are, since most of them has indeed been put into Mundus. That's why they can't do all the same stuff as Daedric Lords. Well, it depends on what you mean with 'god'. Mundus is made out of spirits. Every single concept you see in Mundus was originally a spirit. That's how Lorkhan trapped them there.
So, Mundus is more spirits than just the Eight. The Yokudans/Redguards get that by having a pantheon with far too many gods, including a god of 'we have too many gods'.As for the Eight, they are dead, but malleable.
If people worship them as god, they act as those gods. In that sense, for example, Kynareth and Kyne, are different entities, even if they draw from t he same base.
And Kynareth and Kyne can still act in the world. In Morrowind, we meet rather unassuming avatars of the Divines. It's just that they aren't really people in the same sense that Daedric Lords are, since most of them has indeed been put into Mundus.
That's why they can't do all the same stuff as Daedric Lords. Well, it depends on what you mean with 'god'. Mundus is made out of spirits.
Every single concept you see in Mundus was originally a spirit. That's how Lorkhan trapped them there. So, Mundus is more spirits than just the Eight.
The Yokudans/Redguards get that by having a pantheon with far too many gods, including a god of 'we have too many gods'.As for the Eight, they are dead, but malleable. If people worship them as god, they act as those gods. In that sense, for example, Kynareth and Kyne, are different entities, even if they draw from t he same base. And Kynareth and Kyne can still act in the world.
In Morrowind, we meet rather unassuming avatars of the Divines. It's just that they aren't really people in the same sense that Daedric Lords are, since most of them has indeed been put into Mundus. That's why they can't do all the same stuff as Daedric Lords.